Java nebo .NET pro budoucí freelancing?

lopata

Re:Java nebo .NET pro budoucí freelancing?
« Odpověď #105 kdy: 15. 02. 2017, 14:00:00 »
Tyhle fámy jsou už unavující, nedávno tu nějaký pako psalo, že Swift nemá výjimky. Swift 1 je před lety neměl, nicméně už pár let tam jsou. Tak nevím, jsou lidi idioti, nebo jen provokují (řečnická otázka)?

Moc tomu nevěřím, že to opravili, podle všeho se ten problém týká i verze 3 Swiftu, ale Swift na Linuxu reálně moc použitelný není a kvůli tobě se s tím drbat nebudu, takže mi nezbývá, než ti věřit. Co tohle, taky už to opravili, nebo to pořád Swift nezvádne ani zkompilovat?
Kód: [Vybrat]
let a = -(1)


Polymath

Re:Java nebo .NET pro budoucí freelancing?
« Odpověď #106 kdy: 15. 02. 2017, 14:05:26 »
Tyhle fámy jsou už unavující, nedávno tu nějaký pako psalo, že Swift nemá výjimky. Swift 1 je před lety neměl, nicméně už pár let tam jsou. Tak nevím, jsou lidi idioti, nebo jen provokují (řečnická otázka)?

Moc tomu nevěřím, že to opravili, podle všeho se ten problém týká i verze 3 Swiftu, ale Swift na Linuxu reálně moc použitelný není a kvůli tobě se s tím drbat nebudu, takže mi nezbývá, než ti věřit. Co tohle, taky už to opravili, nebo to pořád Swift nezvádne ani zkompilovat?
Kód: [Vybrat]
let a = -(1)
Doporučuju vytáhnout hlavu z zadeke a naučit se aspoň základy programování, pak bychom se mohli bavit o skutečných problémech, třeba omezené varianci typů ve Swift (kdybys věděl, co to je). Nebo proč je inference typů exponenciální v každém rozumně typovaném jazyce. Třeba někdy za pár let už to půjde...

lopata

Re:Java nebo .NET pro budoucí freelancing?
« Odpověď #107 kdy: 15. 02. 2017, 14:09:51 »
Doporučuju vytáhnout hlavu z zadeke a naučit se aspoň základy programování, pak bychom se mohli bavit o skutečných problémech, třeba omezené varianci typů ve Swift (kdybys věděl, co to je). Nebo proč je inference typů exponenciální v každém rozumně typovaném jazyce. Třeba někdy za pár let už to půjde...

Doporučuju se zamyslet, jestli je ten kód validní nebo ne. A taky, proč se první řádek přeloží a druhý ne:
Kód: [Vybrat]
let a = -(1.0)
let b = -(1)
Pak ti dojde, že obhajuješ neobhajitelné.

gll

Re:Java nebo .NET pro budoucí freelancing?
« Odpověď #108 kdy: 15. 02. 2017, 14:44:02 »
Ak nedas za 30 min jednoduchu appku typu jednoduchy blog alebo zoznam uloh tak nie si senior (nemusi pozerat do dokumentacie aby to napisal).

Takže senior je blbec, který umí kusy kódu nazpaměť a chrlí to rychle? Tak to je fajn, že nejsem senior. Jak se jmenuje úroveň, kdy opravdu musíš něco vymyslet? Supermág?

to som nepovedal, ze je blbec, ale to, ze vie kusy kodu naspamat a pise to rychlo to mas pravdu.

pozri si tu ako robi vyborny senior v praxi http://handmadehero.org/ a este to stiha aj prednasat.

Podobnou hru vytvoří středoškolák pomocí vhodných technologií za víkend.

anonym

Re:Java nebo .NET pro budoucí freelancing?
« Odpověď #109 kdy: 16. 02. 2017, 21:49:27 »
Velice pekne recene vyhody .NEt frameworku, mistama sice mozna trochu prehnane, ale je to pekne v kostce:

https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-advantages-and-disadvantages-of-using-ASP-NET

Citace
MYTH #1: ASP.NET is expensive
No. ASP .NET is free, open source, you can get some very good tools for free or you can use any other open source IDE. You can also find hostings for free. If you are starting business and you need some advanced proffesional software, you can get almost all the software for free for 3 years trough BizSpark program. If you are a student you can get everything for free trough DreamSpark. If you are not a proffesional developer, than the free versions of the tools will be more than enough for you.

Windows Server Licences - most of the time you are paing for webhosting, which is usually the same as Linux. If you have own servers, than you can get development licence for development for free. If you are a proffesional, than cost of windows licence is really nothing comparing to other cost, especially salaries of the admins :)

SQL Server Licences - if you want MS Sql Server, you can get one for free. If you need advanced features like Business Analytics, you can get the paid one (which much much cheaper than oracle, btw). If you want another open source alternative, like Postgree or MySql, nothing limits you.

MYTH #2: You are limited to microsoft tools
No. Microsoft has developed new C# compiler called roslyn (open source as well) which makes it very easy to integrate C# with any editor. You can use any database with any 3rd party IDE. I’m not aware of any special limitation comparing to other platforms. Microsoft’s strategy is just to provide better tools, which is true most of the time

It’s true, that your apps had to be hosted on servers running windows, but this has also changed. You can now write asp .net apps for linux.

MYTH #3: It’s adds a lot of overhead.
No. People saying this mostly refers to asp .net webform from 2008 or earlier.
Actually, ASP .NET is extremly fast, definitely faster than nodejs, php or most of the java frameworks.

MYTH #4: It’s not suitable for modern web
It’s nonsense just like #3. It’s like saying Porsche is not suitable for fast drive, because Cayenne is SUV, not a sport car. Yes, but there is Porshe 911 Carrera as well. In asp .net you have WebForms (Cayenne) and MVC (911 Carrera )

So what are the real disadvantages of ASP .NET? I really don’t know. I would like to hear from others, but the real ones, not the myths.

In some situations I would choose nodejs rather than asp .net because it’s javascript, the same javascript as in browser and which can bring some advantages, like hybrid server/client rendering using JS frameworks like react.

The advantages of asp .net are:

#1 - C# is one of the most beautifully designed languages. It’s much more modern than Java or PHP and does not have design flaws like JavaScript and is strongly typed unlike Python and multi-purpose unlike Ruby. If you want, you can use F# for some part or even entire application where functional programming is more suitable. C# and F# are 100% compatible, which means you can use C# libraries in F# and vice versa.

#2 - Productivity - with libraries like WebApi, SignalR, OData, EntityFramework, and language features like Linq you can get such high productivity, that java developers can only dream of. All the microsoft’s money and experience has been utilized here. Take advantage of it!

#3 - Code and knowledge reuse - since you write asp .net in a C# and .NET framework, you can reuse the code in other windows, windows phone, xamarin, xbox, IoT or even linux applications. However, I must admit that java is slightly better thanks to its great multiplatform support.


Tady frajer rika, ze po 20 letech programovani v Jave zavhl EE a Spring jako chripku. Ale misto aby zmenil platformu, presel k jinacimu frameworku....... a to je co tvrdim, porad se tam delaji zbytecne nove veci, misto aby byly poradne udelane ty stare. Ale to se asi nikdy nestane...

https://www.quora.com/Why-is-Java-Spring-and-JAVA-EE-so-complicated

Citace
My answer is contrary to all other answers here. I have been programming in Java since 1996. I have seen the rise of Applets, then Java EE, then Spring, then "better" Java EE, then Ruby on Rails, then Node, etc. Through all these years, I avoided Java EE and Spring like plague. I completely support your reaction that they are complicated. While you can follow other people's advice and spend more time to study them, IMHO  they are not worth it. I can tell a lot of horror stories about getting a "Hello wold" enterprise been deployed for 2 weeks, or about Spring XML configuration file 5k lines long, but I would be wasting your time.

If you use Spring or Java EE, than that what you will be doing, instead of focusing on your project. In other words, you will not see forest behind the trees!

There are other ways to build Java  projects that allow you to focus on your goals: JavaLite, Play framework.


Polymath

Re:Java nebo .NET pro budoucí freelancing?
« Odpověď #110 kdy: 16. 02. 2017, 22:49:00 »
Velice pekne recene vyhody .NEt frameworku, mistama sice mozna trochu prehnane, ale je to pekne v kostce:

https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-advantages-and-disadvantages-of-using-ASP-NET

Citace
MYTH #1: ASP.NET is expensive
No. ASP .NET is free, open source, you can get some very good tools for free or you can use any other open source IDE. You can also find hostings for free. If you are starting business and you need some advanced proffesional software, you can get almost all the software for free for 3 years trough BizSpark program. If you are a student you can get everything for free trough DreamSpark. If you are not a proffesional developer, than the free versions of the tools will be more than enough for you.

Windows Server Licences - most of the time you are paing for webhosting, which is usually the same as Linux. If you have own servers, than you can get development licence for development for free. If you are a proffesional, than cost of windows licence is really nothing comparing to other cost, especially salaries of the admins :)

SQL Server Licences - if you want MS Sql Server, you can get one for free. If you need advanced features like Business Analytics, you can get the paid one (which much much cheaper than oracle, btw). If you want another open source alternative, like Postgree or MySql, nothing limits you.

MYTH #2: You are limited to microsoft tools
No. Microsoft has developed new C# compiler called roslyn (open source as well) which makes it very easy to integrate C# with any editor. You can use any database with any 3rd party IDE. I’m not aware of any special limitation comparing to other platforms. Microsoft’s strategy is just to provide better tools, which is true most of the time

It’s true, that your apps had to be hosted on servers running windows, but this has also changed. You can now write asp .net apps for linux.

MYTH #3: It’s adds a lot of overhead.
No. People saying this mostly refers to asp .net webform from 2008 or earlier.
Actually, ASP .NET is extremly fast, definitely faster than nodejs, php or most of the java frameworks.

MYTH #4: It’s not suitable for modern web
It’s nonsense just like #3. It’s like saying Porsche is not suitable for fast drive, because Cayenne is SUV, not a sport car. Yes, but there is Porshe 911 Carrera as well. In asp .net you have WebForms (Cayenne) and MVC (911 Carrera )

So what are the real disadvantages of ASP .NET? I really don’t know. I would like to hear from others, but the real ones, not the myths.

In some situations I would choose nodejs rather than asp .net because it’s javascript, the same javascript as in browser and which can bring some advantages, like hybrid server/client rendering using JS frameworks like react.

The advantages of asp .net are:

#1 - C# is one of the most beautifully designed languages. It’s much more modern than Java or PHP and does not have design flaws like JavaScript and is strongly typed unlike Python and multi-purpose unlike Ruby. If you want, you can use F# for some part or even entire application where functional programming is more suitable. C# and F# are 100% compatible, which means you can use C# libraries in F# and vice versa.

#2 - Productivity - with libraries like WebApi, SignalR, OData, EntityFramework, and language features like Linq you can get such high productivity, that java developers can only dream of. All the microsoft’s money and experience has been utilized here. Take advantage of it!

#3 - Code and knowledge reuse - since you write asp .net in a C# and .NET framework, you can reuse the code in other windows, windows phone, xamarin, xbox, IoT or even linux applications. However, I must admit that java is slightly better thanks to its great multiplatform support.


Tady frajer rika, ze po 20 letech programovani v Jave zavhl EE a Spring jako chripku. Ale misto aby zmenil platformu, presel k jinacimu frameworku....... a to je co tvrdim, porad se tam delaji zbytecne nove veci, misto aby byly poradne udelane ty stare. Ale to se asi nikdy nestane...

https://www.quora.com/Why-is-Java-Spring-and-JAVA-EE-so-complicated

Citace
My answer is contrary to all other answers here. I have been programming in Java since 1996. I have seen the rise of Applets, then Java EE, then Spring, then "better" Java EE, then Ruby on Rails, then Node, etc. Through all these years, I avoided Java EE and Spring like plague. I completely support your reaction that they are complicated. While you can follow other people's advice and spend more time to study them, IMHO  they are not worth it. I can tell a lot of horror stories about getting a "Hello wold" enterprise been deployed for 2 weeks, or about Spring XML configuration file 5k lines long, but I would be wasting your time.

If you use Spring or Java EE, than that what you will be doing, instead of focusing on your project. In other words, you will not see forest behind the trees!

There are other ways to build Java  projects that allow you to focus on your goals: JavaLite, Play framework.
Marketingové kecy

anonym

Re:Java nebo .NET pro budoucí freelancing?
« Odpověď #111 kdy: 16. 02. 2017, 22:57:12 »
Ale prdlajz marketingove kecy, naprosto se s tim stotoznuju, psal to proste nekdo, kdo s .netem dela. Tak to je.

Polymath

Re:Java nebo .NET pro budoucí freelancing?
« Odpověď #112 kdy: 17. 02. 2017, 02:19:51 »
Ale prdlajz marketingove kecy, naprosto se s tim stotoznuju, psal to proste nekdo, kdo s .netem dela. Tak to je.
Výrok na úrovni javamana.  Podejte si ruce ;)

jpu

Re:Java nebo .NET pro budoucí freelancing?
« Odpověď #113 kdy: 17. 02. 2017, 07:56:39 »
Marketingové kecy
takze vlastne, ten kto to pisal bol z oddelenia PR Microsoftu, vsak? :D Ono viem, je tazke sa stotoznit s niecim, co vam nepasuje.

mon

Re:Java nebo .NET pro budoucí freelancing?
« Odpověď #114 kdy: 17. 02. 2017, 08:42:25 »
Velice pekne recene vyhody .NEt frameworku, mistama sice mozna trochu prehnane, ale je to pekne v kostce:

https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-advantages-and-disadvantages-of-using-ASP-NET

Citace
MYTH #1: ASP.NET is expensive
No. ASP .NET is free, open source, you can get some very good tools for free or you can use any other open source IDE. You can also find hostings for free. If you are starting business and you need some advanced proffesional software, you can get almost all the software for free for 3 years trough BizSpark program. If you are a student you can get everything for free trough DreamSpark. If you are not a proffesional developer, than the free versions of the tools will be more than enough for you.

Windows Server Licences - most of the time you are paing for webhosting, which is usually the same as Linux. If you have own servers, than you can get development licence for development for free. If you are a proffesional, than cost of windows licence is really nothing comparing to other cost, especially salaries of the admins :)

SQL Server Licences - if you want MS Sql Server, you can get one for free. If you need advanced features like Business Analytics, you can get the paid one (which much much cheaper than oracle, btw). If you want another open source alternative, like Postgree or MySql, nothing limits you.

MYTH #2: You are limited to microsoft tools
No. Microsoft has developed new C# compiler called roslyn (open source as well) which makes it very easy to integrate C# with any editor. You can use any database with any 3rd party IDE. I’m not aware of any special limitation comparing to other platforms. Microsoft’s strategy is just to provide better tools, which is true most of the time

It’s true, that your apps had to be hosted on servers running windows, but this has also changed. You can now write asp .net apps for linux.

MYTH #3: It’s adds a lot of overhead.
No. People saying this mostly refers to asp .net webform from 2008 or earlier.
Actually, ASP .NET is extremly fast, definitely faster than nodejs, php or most of the java frameworks.

MYTH #4: It’s not suitable for modern web
It’s nonsense just like #3. It’s like saying Porsche is not suitable for fast drive, because Cayenne is SUV, not a sport car. Yes, but there is Porshe 911 Carrera as well. In asp .net you have WebForms (Cayenne) and MVC (911 Carrera )

So what are the real disadvantages of ASP .NET? I really don’t know. I would like to hear from others, but the real ones, not the myths.

In some situations I would choose nodejs rather than asp .net because it’s javascript, the same javascript as in browser and which can bring some advantages, like hybrid server/client rendering using JS frameworks like react.

The advantages of asp .net are:

#1 - C# is one of the most beautifully designed languages. It’s much more modern than Java or PHP and does not have design flaws like JavaScript and is strongly typed unlike Python and multi-purpose unlike Ruby. If you want, you can use F# for some part or even entire application where functional programming is more suitable. C# and F# are 100% compatible, which means you can use C# libraries in F# and vice versa.

#2 - Productivity - with libraries like WebApi, SignalR, OData, EntityFramework, and language features like Linq you can get such high productivity, that java developers can only dream of. All the microsoft’s money and experience has been utilized here. Take advantage of it!

#3 - Code and knowledge reuse - since you write asp .net in a C# and .NET framework, you can reuse the code in other windows, windows phone, xamarin, xbox, IoT or even linux applications. However, I must admit that java is slightly better thanks to its great multiplatform support.


Tady frajer rika, ze po 20 letech programovani v Jave zavhl EE a Spring jako chripku. Ale misto aby zmenil platformu, presel k jinacimu frameworku....... a to je co tvrdim, porad se tam delaji zbytecne nove veci, misto aby byly poradne udelane ty stare. Ale to se asi nikdy nestane...

https://www.quora.com/Why-is-Java-Spring-and-JAVA-EE-so-complicated

Citace
My answer is contrary to all other answers here. I have been programming in Java since 1996. I have seen the rise of Applets, then Java EE, then Spring, then "better" Java EE, then Ruby on Rails, then Node, etc. Through all these years, I avoided Java EE and Spring like plague. I completely support your reaction that they are complicated. While you can follow other people's advice and spend more time to study them, IMHO  they are not worth it. I can tell a lot of horror stories about getting a "Hello wold" enterprise been deployed for 2 weeks, or about Spring XML configuration file 5k lines long, but I would be wasting your time.

If you use Spring or Java EE, than that what you will be doing, instead of focusing on your project. In other words, you will not see forest behind the trees!

There are other ways to build Java  projects that allow you to focus on your goals: JavaLite, Play framework.

tak pome na to:) budem pisat tak ze neobhajujem .net alebo javu, ale ako to v skutocnosti je

myth #1
nikto nikdy netvrdil ze asp.net je drahy, .net framework bol vzdy zadarmo
do prichodu mono s normalnymi funkciami a neskor .net core  bolo jedine mozne prostrie windows server to je fakt. a v mono dlho nebolo wcf - teda v enterprise svete nepouzitelne
co ma sql server spolocne .net? okrem jedineho, ze vie pustat procky napisane v .net ma presne tolko rovnakeho ako napr postgre.ale to tam dobre napisal ze pri pouziti oss je to jedno. trocha offtopic, ale ked niekto potrebuje particiovanie tabuliek, tak potrebuje vysolit $30k za enterprise, alebo to stoji $500 mesacne v hostingu.

tento myth na mna posobi zlvastne, nestretol som sa s clovekom ktory by si toto myslel (naroziel od realneho myth ze java je pomala), je to taky marketingovy text alebo evangelisticky vymysleny myth.

myth #2
prostredie ako sharpdevelop je tu uz 16 rokov. roslyn ktorym sa ohana je tu pouzitelny tak zo 2 roky, ale mono ma svoj kompilator uz dlho, takisto .net sdk ma/malo svoj kompilator zadarmo

opat taky zvlastny myth ze tiez skor marketigovy text alebo evangelisticky vymysleny myth.

myth #3
toto je .... no ktora cast asp.net ? to je vytrhnute z kontextu, mvc je rychlejsie ako php, ale je rovnako rychle ako spring mvc. webforms ma svoje miesto ale urcene na nieco ine ako mvc, overhead ma priblizne rovanky ako ine podobne frameworky (wicket, vaadin).

tento myth je zavadzajuci a sposob ako to pise je to  tiez skor marketigovy text alebo evangelisticky vymysleny myth.

myth #4
ja osobne som sa s tymto nestretol od vydania asp.mvc, webforms ozaj nebolo vhodne pre klasicke stranky, tento myth bola pravda do akehosi casu potom uz nie.
toto bol jediny realny myth z tych 4 co uviedol.

a teraz k vyhodam:
#1 nesuhlasim - c# je jednoducho pouzitelny jazyk, ale dizajn ktory tam je, ale prilisnym zjednudovanim odobera programatora o zmyslanie, ktore by mal mat na tejto urovni. vid ako sa kompiluje async a yield, programatori nevedia ci robia s fieldami alebo settermi/gettermi, zverstvo typu extension metody (hladaj vo velkom projekte kde to je a co si zabudol importnut), preco sa da linq zapisat dvoma sposobmi a mnoho podobnych.

#2 nesuhlasim - java kniznice spring mvc, spring websocket + sockjs + stomp, apache olingo, hibernate - su vsetky na rovnakej urovni ked nie lepsie. java8stream su tiez ekvivalentom linqu, ale neskryvaju detaily tak ako linq

#3 tu sam pise ze java je na tom lepsie

K tomu dalsiemu:
ak dlhe roky nepouzival ani javaee a ani spring a ani nevie ako sa to zmenilo rokmi, tak nech nedava rady. to je ako keby som ja neodporucal chodit do ceskoslovensko lebo tu vladnu komunisti. Ked niekto pise helloworld 2 tyzdne, tak si asi zvolil zle povolanie.

Polymath

Re:Java nebo .NET pro budoucí freelancing?
« Odpověď #115 kdy: 17. 02. 2017, 09:07:18 »
Marketingové kecy
takze vlastne, ten kto to pisal bol z oddelenia PR Microsoftu, vsak? :D Ono viem, je tazke sa stotoznit s niecim, co vam nepasuje.
Logicky se nebudu ztotožňovat s něčím, co není pravda. Například na Linuxu by to nasadil jen blázen. Na Windows budiž, tam to je menší masochismus, ale i tam existují lepší řešení.

Polymath

Re:Java nebo .NET pro budoucí freelancing?
« Odpověď #116 kdy: 17. 02. 2017, 09:15:28 »
Velice pekne recene vyhody .NEt frameworku, mistama sice mozna trochu prehnane, ale je to pekne v kostce:

https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-advantages-and-disadvantages-of-using-ASP-NET

Citace
MYTH #1: ASP.NET is expensive
No. ASP .NET is free, open source, you can get some very good tools for free or you can use any other open source IDE. You can also find hostings for free. If you are starting business and you need some advanced proffesional software, you can get almost all the software for free for 3 years trough BizSpark program. If you are a student you can get everything for free trough DreamSpark. If you are not a proffesional developer, than the free versions of the tools will be more than enough for you.

Windows Server Licences - most of the time you are paing for webhosting, which is usually the same as Linux. If you have own servers, than you can get development licence for development for free. If you are a proffesional, than cost of windows licence is really nothing comparing to other cost, especially salaries of the admins :)

SQL Server Licences - if you want MS Sql Server, you can get one for free. If you need advanced features like Business Analytics, you can get the paid one (which much much cheaper than oracle, btw). If you want another open source alternative, like Postgree or MySql, nothing limits you.

MYTH #2: You are limited to microsoft tools
No. Microsoft has developed new C# compiler called roslyn (open source as well) which makes it very easy to integrate C# with any editor. You can use any database with any 3rd party IDE. I’m not aware of any special limitation comparing to other platforms. Microsoft’s strategy is just to provide better tools, which is true most of the time

It’s true, that your apps had to be hosted on servers running windows, but this has also changed. You can now write asp .net apps for linux.

MYTH #3: It’s adds a lot of overhead.
No. People saying this mostly refers to asp .net webform from 2008 or earlier.
Actually, ASP .NET is extremly fast, definitely faster than nodejs, php or most of the java frameworks.

MYTH #4: It’s not suitable for modern web
It’s nonsense just like #3. It’s like saying Porsche is not suitable for fast drive, because Cayenne is SUV, not a sport car. Yes, but there is Porshe 911 Carrera as well. In asp .net you have WebForms (Cayenne) and MVC (911 Carrera )

So what are the real disadvantages of ASP .NET? I really don’t know. I would like to hear from others, but the real ones, not the myths.

In some situations I would choose nodejs rather than asp .net because it’s javascript, the same javascript as in browser and which can bring some advantages, like hybrid server/client rendering using JS frameworks like react.

The advantages of asp .net are:

#1 - C# is one of the most beautifully designed languages. It’s much more modern than Java or PHP and does not have design flaws like JavaScript and is strongly typed unlike Python and multi-purpose unlike Ruby. If you want, you can use F# for some part or even entire application where functional programming is more suitable. C# and F# are 100% compatible, which means you can use C# libraries in F# and vice versa.

#2 - Productivity - with libraries like WebApi, SignalR, OData, EntityFramework, and language features like Linq you can get such high productivity, that java developers can only dream of. All the microsoft’s money and experience has been utilized here. Take advantage of it!

#3 - Code and knowledge reuse - since you write asp .net in a C# and .NET framework, you can reuse the code in other windows, windows phone, xamarin, xbox, IoT or even linux applications. However, I must admit that java is slightly better thanks to its great multiplatform support.


Tady frajer rika, ze po 20 letech programovani v Jave zavhl EE a Spring jako chripku. Ale misto aby zmenil platformu, presel k jinacimu frameworku....... a to je co tvrdim, porad se tam delaji zbytecne nove veci, misto aby byly poradne udelane ty stare. Ale to se asi nikdy nestane...

https://www.quora.com/Why-is-Java-Spring-and-JAVA-EE-so-complicated

Citace
My answer is contrary to all other answers here. I have been programming in Java since 1996. I have seen the rise of Applets, then Java EE, then Spring, then "better" Java EE, then Ruby on Rails, then Node, etc. Through all these years, I avoided Java EE and Spring like plague. I completely support your reaction that they are complicated. While you can follow other people's advice and spend more time to study them, IMHO  they are not worth it. I can tell a lot of horror stories about getting a "Hello wold" enterprise been deployed for 2 weeks, or about Spring XML configuration file 5k lines long, but I would be wasting your time.

If you use Spring or Java EE, than that what you will be doing, instead of focusing on your project. In other words, you will not see forest behind the trees!

There are other ways to build Java  projects that allow you to focus on your goals: JavaLite, Play framework.

tak pome na to:) budem pisat tak ze neobhajujem .net alebo javu, ale ako to v skutocnosti je

myth #1
nikto nikdy netvrdil ze asp.net je drahy, .net framework bol vzdy zadarmo
do prichodu mono s normalnymi funkciami a neskor .net core  bolo jedine mozne prostrie windows server to je fakt. a v mono dlho nebolo wcf - teda v enterprise svete nepouzitelne
co ma sql server spolocne .net? okrem jedineho, ze vie pustat procky napisane v .net ma presne tolko rovnakeho ako napr postgre.ale to tam dobre napisal ze pri pouziti oss je to jedno. trocha offtopic, ale ked niekto potrebuje particiovanie tabuliek, tak potrebuje vysolit $30k za enterprise, alebo to stoji $500 mesacne v hostingu.

tento myth na mna posobi zlvastne, nestretol som sa s clovekom ktory by si toto myslel (naroziel od realneho myth ze java je pomala), je to taky marketingovy text alebo evangelisticky vymysleny myth.

myth #2
prostredie ako sharpdevelop je tu uz 16 rokov. roslyn ktorym sa ohana je tu pouzitelny tak zo 2 roky, ale mono ma svoj kompilator uz dlho, takisto .net sdk ma/malo svoj kompilator zadarmo

opat taky zvlastny myth ze tiez skor marketigovy text alebo evangelisticky vymysleny myth.

myth #3
toto je .... no ktora cast asp.net ? to je vytrhnute z kontextu, mvc je rychlejsie ako php, ale je rovnako rychle ako spring mvc. webforms ma svoje miesto ale urcene na nieco ine ako mvc, overhead ma priblizne rovanky ako ine podobne frameworky (wicket, vaadin).

tento myth je zavadzajuci a sposob ako to pise je to  tiez skor marketigovy text alebo evangelisticky vymysleny myth.

myth #4
ja osobne som sa s tymto nestretol od vydania asp.mvc, webforms ozaj nebolo vhodne pre klasicke stranky, tento myth bola pravda do akehosi casu potom uz nie.
toto bol jediny realny myth z tych 4 co uviedol.

a teraz k vyhodam:
#1 nesuhlasim - c# je jednoducho pouzitelny jazyk, ale dizajn ktory tam je, ale prilisnym zjednudovanim odobera programatora o zmyslanie, ktore by mal mat na tejto urovni. vid ako sa kompiluje async a yield, programatori nevedia ci robia s fieldami alebo settermi/gettermi, zverstvo typu extension metody (hladaj vo velkom projekte kde to je a co si zabudol importnut), preco sa da linq zapisat dvoma sposobmi a mnoho podobnych.

#2 nesuhlasim - java kniznice spring mvc, spring websocket + sockjs + stomp, apache olingo, hibernate - su vsetky na rovnakej urovni ked nie lepsie. java8stream su tiez ekvivalentom linqu, ale neskryvaju detaily tak ako linq

#3 tu sam pise ze java je na tom lepsie

K tomu dalsiemu:
ak dlhe roky nepouzival ani javaee a ani spring a ani nevie ako sa to zmenilo rokmi, tak nech nedava rady. to je ako keby som ja neodporucal chodit do ceskoslovensko lebo tu vladnu komunisti. Ked niekto pise helloworld 2 tyzdne, tak si asi zvolil zle povolanie.
Mám daleko k obhajování JavaEE a taky bych to nedoporučoval, ale poslední verze rozhodně složitá není. Je smutná věc, že se k problému vyjadřují lidi, co o věci vědí prd. Viz zde před pár dny, kdy jsme se dozvěděli, že Swift nemá výjimky (ještě stále jsou na světě idioti, co neumí googlovat), překladač nepřeloží sčítání stringů (i ten největší debil zvládne napsat jednořádkový program a přeložit ho, aby zjistil, že to není pravda) atd. Stejně tak s ostatními jazyky. Ono Quora není moc dobrá, rozumně poradí jen na Stackoverflow.

TVL

Re:Java nebo .NET pro budoucí freelancing?
« Odpověď #117 kdy: 17. 02. 2017, 10:02:06 »

tak pome na to:) budem pisat tak ze neobhajujem .net alebo javu, ale ako to v skutocnosti je

myth #1
nikto nikdy netvrdil ze asp.net je drahy, .net framework bol vzdy zadarmo
do prichodu mono s normalnymi funkciami a neskor .net core  bolo jedine mozne prostrie windows server to je fakt. a v mono dlho nebolo wcf - teda v enterprise svete nepouzitelne
co ma sql server spolocne .net? okrem jedineho, ze vie pustat procky napisane v .net ma presne tolko rovnakeho ako napr postgre.ale to tam dobre napisal ze pri pouziti oss je to jedno. trocha offtopic, ale ked niekto potrebuje particiovanie tabuliek, tak potrebuje vysolit $30k za enterprise, alebo to stoji $500 mesacne v hostingu.

tento myth na mna posobi zlvastne, nestretol som sa s clovekom ktory by si toto myslel (naroziel od realneho myth ze java je pomala), je to taky marketingovy text alebo evangelisticky vymysleny myth.

myth #2
prostredie ako sharpdevelop je tu uz 16 rokov. roslyn ktorym sa ohana je tu pouzitelny tak zo 2 roky, ale mono ma svoj kompilator uz dlho, takisto .net sdk ma/malo svoj kompilator zadarmo

opat taky zvlastny myth ze tiez skor marketigovy text alebo evangelisticky vymysleny myth.

myth #3
toto je .... no ktora cast asp.net ? to je vytrhnute z kontextu, mvc je rychlejsie ako php, ale je rovnako rychle ako spring mvc. webforms ma svoje miesto ale urcene na nieco ine ako mvc, overhead ma priblizne rovanky ako ine podobne frameworky (wicket, vaadin).

tento myth je zavadzajuci a sposob ako to pise je to  tiez skor marketigovy text alebo evangelisticky vymysleny myth.

myth #4
ja osobne som sa s tymto nestretol od vydania asp.mvc, webforms ozaj nebolo vhodne pre klasicke stranky, tento myth bola pravda do akehosi casu potom uz nie.
toto bol jediny realny myth z tych 4 co uviedol.

a teraz k vyhodam:
#1 nesuhlasim - c# je jednoducho pouzitelny jazyk, ale dizajn ktory tam je, ale prilisnym zjednudovanim odobera programatora o zmyslanie, ktore by mal mat na tejto urovni. vid ako sa kompiluje async a yield, programatori nevedia ci robia s fieldami alebo settermi/gettermi, zverstvo typu extension metody (hladaj vo velkom projekte kde to je a co si zabudol importnut), preco sa da linq zapisat dvoma sposobmi a mnoho podobnych.

#2 nesuhlasim - java kniznice spring mvc, spring websocket + sockjs + stomp, apache olingo, hibernate - su vsetky na rovnakej urovni ked nie lepsie. java8stream su tiez ekvivalentom linqu, ale neskryvaju detaily tak ako linq

#3 tu sam pise ze java je na tom lepsie

K tomu dalsiemu:
ak dlhe roky nepouzival ani javaee a ani spring a ani nevie ako sa to zmenilo rokmi, tak nech nedava rady. to je ako keby som ja neodporucal chodit do ceskoslovensko lebo tu vladnu komunisti. Ked niekto pise helloworld 2 tyzdne, tak si asi zvolil zle povolanie.

Já jsem tedy svého času tyhle argumeny proti asp.net, jak je to drahé atd. slýchal dost často. Zejména, od PHPistů, když se jednalo o komerční vývoj - a úplně od všech, když se jednalo o nekomerční věci.
Takže mě přijde logické, že ty argumenty někdo sepsal a vyvrátil.

Mýtus #1 -ASP.NET ze začátku rozhodně drahé bylo, až časem přišly levnější hostingy, nebo hostingy úplně zdarma. A to v době, když PHP bylo za pár korun, nebo úplně zadarmo. Takže když se to změnilo, spousta lidí to nepostřehla a žila v mýtu, že ASP.NET je drahé.

Mýtus #2 Naprostá většina lidí, co dělala s .NETem používala MS Visual Studio. A kdo na něj neměl, tak si stáhl pirátskou verzi. S MS nástroji to šlo nejlépe, ale byly i jiné - ale spousta lidí o nich nevěděla. Spousta lidí fakt měla zafixované to - musím mít MS Visual Studio a musím mít placenou verzi. Takže tady je to napůl mýtus, napůl evangelismus.

Mýtus #3 a #4 jsou prakticky totéž. Klasické ASP.NET (WebForms) je opravdu těžkopádné, vytváří se tím neoptimální stránky a pro moderní web se to nehodilo (ale zase to bylo úžasné pro intranet weby). Pak přišlo ASP.NET MVC a weby mohly být velmi malé, rychlé, efektivní a nijak to neomezovalo nic z toho, co se nazývalo moderním webem. Ale opět - spousta lidí o tom nevěděla, neznala to - měla povědomí pouze o WebForms. Takže reálně existoval a šířil se mýtus o tom, že ASP.NET není dobré.

Polymath

Re:Java nebo .NET pro budoucí freelancing?
« Odpověď #118 kdy: 17. 02. 2017, 10:35:52 »

tak pome na to:) budem pisat tak ze neobhajujem .net alebo javu, ale ako to v skutocnosti je

myth #1
nikto nikdy netvrdil ze asp.net je drahy, .net framework bol vzdy zadarmo
do prichodu mono s normalnymi funkciami a neskor .net core  bolo jedine mozne prostrie windows server to je fakt. a v mono dlho nebolo wcf - teda v enterprise svete nepouzitelne
co ma sql server spolocne .net? okrem jedineho, ze vie pustat procky napisane v .net ma presne tolko rovnakeho ako napr postgre.ale to tam dobre napisal ze pri pouziti oss je to jedno. trocha offtopic, ale ked niekto potrebuje particiovanie tabuliek, tak potrebuje vysolit $30k za enterprise, alebo to stoji $500 mesacne v hostingu.

tento myth na mna posobi zlvastne, nestretol som sa s clovekom ktory by si toto myslel (naroziel od realneho myth ze java je pomala), je to taky marketingovy text alebo evangelisticky vymysleny myth.

myth #2
prostredie ako sharpdevelop je tu uz 16 rokov. roslyn ktorym sa ohana je tu pouzitelny tak zo 2 roky, ale mono ma svoj kompilator uz dlho, takisto .net sdk ma/malo svoj kompilator zadarmo

opat taky zvlastny myth ze tiez skor marketigovy text alebo evangelisticky vymysleny myth.

myth #3
toto je .... no ktora cast asp.net ? to je vytrhnute z kontextu, mvc je rychlejsie ako php, ale je rovnako rychle ako spring mvc. webforms ma svoje miesto ale urcene na nieco ine ako mvc, overhead ma priblizne rovanky ako ine podobne frameworky (wicket, vaadin).

tento myth je zavadzajuci a sposob ako to pise je to  tiez skor marketigovy text alebo evangelisticky vymysleny myth.

myth #4
ja osobne som sa s tymto nestretol od vydania asp.mvc, webforms ozaj nebolo vhodne pre klasicke stranky, tento myth bola pravda do akehosi casu potom uz nie.
toto bol jediny realny myth z tych 4 co uviedol.

a teraz k vyhodam:
#1 nesuhlasim - c# je jednoducho pouzitelny jazyk, ale dizajn ktory tam je, ale prilisnym zjednudovanim odobera programatora o zmyslanie, ktore by mal mat na tejto urovni. vid ako sa kompiluje async a yield, programatori nevedia ci robia s fieldami alebo settermi/gettermi, zverstvo typu extension metody (hladaj vo velkom projekte kde to je a co si zabudol importnut), preco sa da linq zapisat dvoma sposobmi a mnoho podobnych.

#2 nesuhlasim - java kniznice spring mvc, spring websocket + sockjs + stomp, apache olingo, hibernate - su vsetky na rovnakej urovni ked nie lepsie. java8stream su tiez ekvivalentom linqu, ale neskryvaju detaily tak ako linq

#3 tu sam pise ze java je na tom lepsie

K tomu dalsiemu:
ak dlhe roky nepouzival ani javaee a ani spring a ani nevie ako sa to zmenilo rokmi, tak nech nedava rady. to je ako keby som ja neodporucal chodit do ceskoslovensko lebo tu vladnu komunisti. Ked niekto pise helloworld 2 tyzdne, tak si asi zvolil zle povolanie.

Já jsem tedy svého času tyhle argumeny proti asp.net, jak je to drahé atd. slýchal dost často. Zejména, od PHPistů, když se jednalo o komerční vývoj - a úplně od všech, když se jednalo o nekomerční věci.
Takže mě přijde logické, že ty argumenty někdo sepsal a vyvrátil.

Mýtus #1 -ASP.NET ze začátku rozhodně drahé bylo, až časem přišly levnější hostingy, nebo hostingy úplně zdarma. A to v době, když PHP bylo za pár korun, nebo úplně zadarmo. Takže když se to změnilo, spousta lidí to nepostřehla a žila v mýtu, že ASP.NET je drahé.

Mýtus #2 Naprostá většina lidí, co dělala s .NETem používala MS Visual Studio. A kdo na něj neměl, tak si stáhl pirátskou verzi. S MS nástroji to šlo nejlépe, ale byly i jiné - ale spousta lidí o nich nevěděla. Spousta lidí fakt měla zafixované to - musím mít MS Visual Studio a musím mít placenou verzi. Takže tady je to napůl mýtus, napůl evangelismus.

Mýtus #3 a #4 jsou prakticky totéž. Klasické ASP.NET (WebForms) je opravdu těžkopádné, vytváří se tím neoptimální stránky a pro moderní web se to nehodilo (ale zase to bylo úžasné pro intranet weby). Pak přišlo ASP.NET MVC a weby mohly být velmi malé, rychlé, efektivní a nijak to neomezovalo nic z toho, co se nazývalo moderním webem. Ale opět - spousta lidí o tom nevěděla, neznala to - měla povědomí pouze o WebForms. Takže reálně existoval a šířil se mýtus o tom, že ASP.NET není dobré.
Pořád zůstává otázka, nakolik to je vhodné technicky, třeba pro malé věci.

TVL

Re:Java nebo .NET pro budoucí freelancing?
« Odpověď #119 kdy: 17. 02. 2017, 13:10:37 »
Pořád zůstává otázka, nakolik to je vhodné technicky, třeba pro malé věci.
ASP.NET rozhodně není nevhodné na malé věci (jako třeba Java EE). Určitě jsou webové ekosystémy, které se člověk naučí rychleji, které mají níže tu vstupní laťku.
Ale pokud člověk ASP.NET umí, tak není důvod volit pro malé věci něco jiného.
Tedy pokud malou věcí nemyslíte webový server zajišťující konfiguraci nějakého malého zařízení - tam se ASP.NET nehodí rozhodně :-)